In my series of podcasts, I’ve had the opportunity to engage in conversations with remarkable people who have worked at the intersection of economics, energy, and environment, with backgrounds and experiences in multiple sectors, including academia, government, the private sector, and NGOs. My most recent podcast guest was no exception, because I was joined by Elaine Buckberg, my colleague at the Harvard Kennedy School, where she is a Senior Fellow in the Salata Institute for Climate and Sustainability, and previously served as Chief Economist at General Motors, and before that worked at a number of economic consulting firms and investment banks, as well as the U.S. Department of the Treasury and the International Monetary Fund.
So, I was eager to feature an episode with Elaine in my monthly podcast, “Environmental Insights: Discussions on Policy and Practice from the Harvard Environmental Economics Program.” The podcast is produced by the Harvard Environmental Economics Program. I hope you will listen to our conversation here.
Elaine Buckberg draws on her experience in macro, micro, and financial economics, both domestic and international, and much of her current work at Harvard focuses on the economics of electric vehicles (EVs) and policies intended to encourage their development and adoption.
In our conversation, she remarks that despite progress in the growth of the U.S. EV market over the past decade, there remain a couple of significant obstacles.
“Number one is [the] availability of public charging. Everyone, even if they can install home charging, want to believe that if they buy an EV, they can do a road trip, and it won’t be a challenging or frustrating experience. So, having highway charging that works, that’s widespread, and that’s reliable is huge for adoption. And that comes through in JD Power surveys of vehicle buyers too, for the top five reasons why people just bought [or] don’t buy an EV in recent quarters are all about charging. The other barrier is about price differentials … People have a limited willingness to pay more for an EV,” she says.
Of course, the Trump administration is taking steps through its “One Big Beautiful Bill Act,” Buckberg notes, to roll back subsidies for domestic EV purchases and impose a $250 per/year fee on EVs to compensate for lost gas taxes. I will add that the OBBBA also functionally eliminates any effect of CAFE standards for motor vehicle fuel efficiency (which go back 50 years to a law signed by President Gerald Ford) by eliminating the penalty for non-compliance.
However, Elaine says that most automakers understand that changing market dynamics on their own will compel them to embrace green technologies.
“[They] overwhelmingly believe that EVs are the future and are ambitious about getting into the market and want to be early winners in the EV market but also need to achieve profitability along the way in order to satisfy investors and be able to make those very substantial investments in their EV program,” she explains. “There [are] some differences among automakers. Automakers that are heavily in Europe or in China have to shift over their portfolios faster. I think GM and Ford are very ambitious. The Europeans are very ambitious. Hyundai and Kia [are] doing very well with EV models in the U.S. market.”
Looking over the longer term, Buckberg states that as EV battery ranges and charging capacities expand, this will further drive the advancement of the EV market – both in the U.S. and abroad.
“I’m a really big believer in the technological progress that the amount of research that’s happening on batteries – public and private – around the globe will really continue to drive down battery costs and get us to that point where buying an EV is actually cheaper than buying an internal combustion engine (ICE) vehicle even on the upfront costs, and that will be very compelling to people,” she states.
“I also think that some of the other challenges around charging and speed of charging are improving with continued rollout of chargers as well as improvements in the batteries that enable them to take in faster charges. You may have seen that there were a couple of breakthroughs from BYD and CATL, two Chinese companies, where they’re saying you could charge a vehicle in five minutes on new chargers they are developing that could provide more than a thousand kilowatts per hour and vehicles that could take them in at that speed.”
At the other end of the spectrum, Buckberg sounds an alarm for U.S. automakers who drag their feet on their EV programs.
“This is the future of auto, and if we want the U.S. to continue to compete in auto, if you want us to have jobs in auto and be a producer, we can’t fall further behind the rest of the world. Even without the emissions requirement, from a pure jobs and industry requirement, you want domestic production. This is the future of the auto industry, and if we don’t make them domestically, if we don’t promote sales, we will fall further behind in efficiency in learning, and we may not have a domestic auto industry in the future,” she warns.
For this and much more, please listen to my complete podcast conversation with Elaine Buckberg, the 68th episode over the past five years of the Environmental Insights series, with future episodes scheduled to drop each month. You can find a transcript of our conversation at the website of the Harvard Environmental Economics Program. Previous episodes have featured conversations with:
- Gina McCarthy, former Administrator of the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency
- Nick Stern of the London School of Economics discussing his career, British politics, and efforts to combat climate change
- Andrei Marcu, founder and executive director of the European Roundtable on Climate Change and Sustainable Transition
- Paul Watkinson, Chair of the Subsidiary Body for Scientific and Technological Advice (SBSTA) within the United Nations Framework Convention on Climate Change
- Jos Delbeke, professor at the European University Institute in Florence and at the KU Leuven in Belgium, and formerly Director-General of the European Commission’s DG Climate Action
- David Keith, professor at Harvard and a leading authority on geoengineering
- Joe Aldy, professor of the practice of public policy at Harvard Kennedy School, with considerable experience working on climate change policy issues in the U.S. government
- Scott Barrett, professor of natural resource economics at Columbia University, and an authority on infectious disease policy
- Rebecca Henderson, John and Natty McArthur University Professor at Harvard University, and founding co-director of the Business and Environment Initiative at Harvard Business School.
- Sue Biniaz, who was the lead climate lawyer and a lead climate negotiator for the United States from 1989 until early 2017.
- Richard Schmalensee, the Howard W. Johnson Professor of Management, and Professor of Economics Emeritus at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology.
- Kelley Kizier, Associate Vice President for International Climate at the Environmental Defense Fund.
- David Hone, Chief Climate Change Adviser, Shell International.
- Vicky Bailey, 30 years of experience in corporate and government positions in the energy sector.
- David Victor, professor of international relations at the University of California, San Diego.
- Lisa Friedman, reporter on the climate desk at the The New York Times.
- Coral Davenport, who covers energy and environmental policy for The New York Times from Washington.
- Spencer Dale, BP Group Chief Economist.
- Richard Revesz, professor at the NYU School of Law.
- Daniel Esty, Hillhouse Professor of Environment and Law at Yale University.
- William Hogan, Raymond Plank Research Professor of Global Energy Policy at Harvard.
- Jody Freeman, Archibald Cox Professor of Law at Harvard Law School.
- John Graham, Dean Emeritus, Paul O’Neill School of Public and Environmental Affairs, Indiana University.
- Gernot Wagner, Clinical Associate Professor at New York University.
- John Holdren, Research Professor, Harvard Kennedy School.
- Larry Goulder, Shuzo Nishihara Professor of Environmental and Resource Economics, Stanford University.
- Suzi Kerr, Chief Economist, Environmental Defense Fund.
- Sheila Olmstead, Professor of Public Affairs, LBJ School of Public Affairs, University of Texas, Austin.
- Robert Pindyck, Bank of Tokyo-Mitsubishi Professor of Economics and Finance, MIT Sloan School of Management.
- Gilbert Metcalf, Professor of Economics, Tufts University.
- Navroz Dubash, Professor, Centre for Policy Research, New Delhi.
- Paul Joskow, Elizabeth and James Killian Professor of Economics emeritus, MIT.
- Maureen Cropper, Distinguished University Professor, University of Maryland.
- Orley Ashenfelter, the Joseph Douglas Green 1895 Professor of Economics, Princeton University.
- Jonathan Wiener, the William and Thomas Perkins Professor of Law, Duke Law School.
- Lori Bennear, the Juli Plant Grainger Associate Professor of Energy Economics and Policy, Nicholas School of the Environment, Duke University.
- Daniel Yergin, founder of Cambridge Energy Research Associates, and now Vice Chair of S&P Global.
- Jeffrey Holmstead, who leads the Environmental Strategies Group at Bracewell in Washington, DC.
- Daniel Jacob, Vasco McCoy Family Professor of Atmospheric Chemistry & Environmental Engineering at Harvard.
- Michael Greenstone, Milton Friedman Distinguished Service Professor of Economics, University of Chicago.
- Billy Pizer, Vice President for Research & Policy Engagement, Resources for the Future.
- Daniel Bodansky, Regents’ Professor, Sandra Day O’Connor College of Law, Arizona State University.
- Catherine Wolfram, Cora Jane Flood Professor of Business Administration, Haas School of Business, University of California, Berkeley, currently on leave at the Harvard Kennedy School.
- James Stock, Harold Hitchings Burbank Professor of Political Economy, Harvard University.
- Mary Nichols, long-time leader in California, U.S., and international climate change policy.
- Geoffrey Heal, Donald Waite III Professor of Social Enterprise, Columbia Business School.
- Kathleen Segerson, Board of Trustees Distinguished Professor of Economics, University of Connecticut.
- Meredith Fowlie, Professor of Agricultural and Resource Economics, U.C. Berkeley.
- Karen Palmer, Senior Fellow, Resources for the Future.
- Severin Borenstein, Professor of the Graduate School, Haas School of Business, University of California, Berkeley.
- Michael Toffel, Senator John Heinz Professor of Environmental Management and Professor of Business Administration, Harvard Business School.
- Emma Rothschild, Jeremy and Jane Knowles Professor of History, Harvard University.
- Nathaniel Keohane, President, C2ES.
- Amy Harder, Executive Editor, Cypher News.
- Richard Zeckhauser, Frank Ramsey Professor of Political Economy, Harvard Kennedy School.
- Kimberly (Kim) Clausing, School of Law, University of California at Los Angeles
- Hunt Allcott, Professor of Global Environmental Policy, Stanford Doerr School of Sustainability.
- Meghan O’Sullivan, Jeane Kirkpatrick Professor of the Practice of International Affairs at Harvard Kennedy School.
- Robert Lawrence, Albert Williams Professor of International Trade and Investment, Harvard Kennedy School.
- Charles Taylor, Assistant Professor of Public Policy, Harvard Kennedy School.
- Wolfram Schlenker, Ray Goldberg Professor of the Global Food System, Harvard Kennedy School.
- Karen Fisher-Vanden, Professor of Environmental & Resource Economics, Pennsylvania State University
- Max Bearak, climate and energy reporter, New York Times
- Vijay Vaitheeswaran, global energy and climate innovation editor, The Economist
- Joseph Aldy, Teresa & John Heinz Professor of the Practice of Environmental Policy, Harvard Kennedy School
- Nicholas Burns, Roy and Barbara Goodman Family Professor of the Practice of Diplomacy and International Relations, Harvard Kennedy School
“Environmental Insights” is hosted on SoundCloud, and is also available on iTunes, Pocket Casts, Spotify, and Stitcher.
